Principal of Hampton and Bethel High Schools (Va.)

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Q: How many years were you in education as a teacher and as a principal?

lovett audio (Streamed audio file of interview for this question using RealPlayer)

A: Thirty-three years. My goal was to do thirty five, but something came up that was very positive and I just could not refuse it. Therefore, I terminated at thirty three years. I think, possibly, that we will understand why I did not reach my goal of thirty five years.

Q: I see. Describe the school at which you served as principal or the schools.

A: The plural is in vogue. I served as principal of Hampton High School, which is "The School" in the city of Hampton. We have had as many as twenty eight hundred students in the school at one time. We have gone through the double shift. We have ahd a small number of blacks at the beginning when I went there as an assistant principal. As a matter of fact, there were two blacks there, the business teacher and I. It was a jungle there. There were fights, about two or three a day. ... the same thing that we are having in Foresight today. We had gang warfare. There were bad situations and I was not afraid of them. I had a responsibility and I executed the responsibility. We also had academia. We had very gifted students there. The curriculum was adequate for the population that we had, but the faculty, when I first went there, was not adequate to the population because we did not have enough black teachers, not enough black administrators, and no black counselors. Therefore, the black students had only two people as role models. My role was more or less an authoritarian nature. It had to be, to keep things going from day to day. The business teacher was to teach and stay in her room as much as she could. That was the kind of setting. I do not want to paint a totally gloomy picture, because that was not the case. That was the exception rather than the case. We had good intregrated teams, asyouknow, that still exist at Hampton High School. Hampton is nationally known for its sports. Also it is nationally known for its academics. When I was there as the principal we were second in the state, as far as academic is concerned, for one year. They built upon that and we became first in the nation. That is the kind of picture we had in Hampton. Looking on the positive side, we had good relations with parents. Parents would come and they would be willing to work to the advantage of the student and work toward the positive solution of problems, which make the job really rewarding. I must tell you also that there was a lady with a pistol. I was in the cafeteria when I was approached by my secretary shouting that there was a student in the school with a gun and that she was going to shoot another student. I got up and started to walk. Two assistant principals went with me. As we came down the hall they were behind me, so I stopped, and in turn they stopped. If I walked fast, they walked fast. When I approached the girl with the gun she left running.... At Hampton High School I had telephone calls threatening my life. I invited the caller to either come to my house or that I would meet him to resolve the problem and the caller hung up the phone.... Also, when I was principal at Hampton High School, wife and I had just returned home from school and a car passed and fired a shot.

Q: Did he shoot at you?

A: Yes he shot at me. My wife was out of the car, so I just backed out of the drive way and followed the car. I followed the car about half a mile and the driver turned in a drive way. I knew that this guy had a gun. I did not have anything. I turned in the drive way behind him and I guess he figured that I had a gun also. The guy left. I followed him to Yorktown and got his license number. I turned his license number in to the police, but nothing has happened to this day. There was no followup to that situation for me at all. Thats at Hampton .... Positive things, again, at Hampton are parental support, student support, teacher support. Either you could volunteer to support me or I would force you, the teacher,to support me by saying to the teachers "you have to implement the policies of the school. This is nothing personal, but if you do not implement the policies of the school we would replace you." Therefore, I had the support. This was what I had to do. The longer I stayed the less of this kind of problem I had. You could become humanistic once people found out what your program was, what the program stood for, and what you stood for. Then you could throw the forced support out of the window.

Q: Did you have a similar experience at Bethel High School?

A: Okay! At Bethel High School, well I went to Bethel High school after being principal at Hampton High School for twelve years. I went to Bethel as a principal. That was a bad scene. That was a bad scene, drugs... bad scene, alcohol... bad scene, a franchise group of students selling drugs in the parking lot. When I say franchise, I mean this this-now if I get a franchise to operate in the southeastern part of Virginia, thats the only area that I operate in isn't it?

Q: Yes, you are right.

A: I need another one for the northeastern and so and so. The parking lot was franchised to the point that this was my spot and no one went there except that student or that gang of students. The same thing was true through the parking lot. But the opposite side of the corner too. That was a beautiful school, and togetherness of the student body. They worked hard. You did not have too many discipline problems. To implement the drug scene, I got the parents together at a PTA meeting with the school board representative, myself, counselors,and assistant principals. I said okay "we have a problem." I am just abashed of what I see on police tape. I could not believe it. I said, "What are you going to do?" and no one said anything. So I said that the way it is going, we are going to have a bust. I said to each individually, do you mind? Do you have an alternative? They did not have an alternative. Sure enough we had a bust with police dogs and all that stuff. I was in Charlottesville at a principal meeting. The school officials called and told me that I knew what was going down. I got a lot of repercussion from that. I got telephone calls at home saying that I was destroying the school etc., but then, there were those poople who said that drugs have been here for the last ten years and no one would do anything about it. One of the assistant principals stated in the Daily Press that the bust needed to have been done six years ago, and that he was glad that Mr. Lovett had the guts to do it. After the bust we had a very good scene and a very easy school to administer. There is one thing about Bethel that is like Foresight. The second day that I was there, the office was facing the North and I saw some thing at the window. I went over there. You don't know what it was? A pillow case with holes cut in it with the Letters KKK written all over it. (He Laughed) As a matter of fact I still have the pillow case as a memento now. Those are the kinds of negative and positive situations that I have had as principal of those two schools. I come away with a very sweet, understanding, humanistic taste in my mouth. I think that from having had those experiences have made my life more meaningful.

Q: It seems like you have done a wonderful job.

A: Thank you very much. One day I said to my wife "I don't know if I want to go to school today or not." She said why? I said, "all these things that are happening." This was in 1969-1970. She said that "either you can sit on the pot or get off." That thing never left me. This meant that she supported me. That was good. That was one thing that kept me doing what the job description of principal was.

Q: What was your school's philosophy and how was it developed?

A: The school philosophy when I went in was already written. It was just there. How it came about... I was not aware of just how it came about, but what I did was to get students, teachers, and representatives from all parts of the school and commumity that we serve. We got them to come into the school and we got input from each of these groups. They gave the input and I gave it to an editor and mailed it out to the parents tohave them to read and delete. If they deleted something, I asked them to tell why. Therefore; the philosophy of the school was accepted very readily. Now what was the philosophy of the school? The philosophy was that we treat all human beings as human beings regardless of what they do positive or what they do negative. We are here to educate not to train. We train lower classes of animals through repetition. We are here to educate and we educate by making sure that all students are in a position to experience different things. Things that they have not experienced before. That's education. Also, this is important...the following philosophy....What we teach in this building, a student is able to apply it to himself today, yesterday, and tommorrow. It is not education for the sake of education but education for the sake of building an education for the sake of life. I think by doing that, the students will say I am not just in an academic vaccum. I am not in a classroom to make a grade by regurgitating. I am in a classroom to learn more about myself, learn more about others, and how I can help other people...and how I can help myself mature.

Q: Very good, Outstanding! You mentioned something about community relations. I see that you believe in having the community take an active part in helping to formulate principles and policies.

A: Let me add something to this, because I want you to understand this because this is a political kind of thing that some people use. Some administrators use that as a means toward an end-- Not as a means to help my students in his school. He uses it to avoid problems.

Q: Right, I understand. Thats not the correct way to use this kind of input.

A: ...They will say ... we have a very live situation today ... "Sex Education", Everone is howling about you are doing it wrong. You should do it this way,you should do it that way. What are administrators doing? Without the parents knowing it without the community knowing it, they are throwing it in their lap. Okay, you formulate some groups in the community and we will have something. We will decide what is going to happen. They are giving the ball to somebody else. That's what the poor administrator, who is afraid to stand on his own two feet, and say that this is the course of action that the students want, the parents want, and that is what we are going to use. Okay....

Q: What do you think teachers expect principals to be?

A: There is no question about it. I look at it from this stand point. What do I expect the superintendent to be? I expect him to be my friend, I expect him to be my leader, I expect him to be my protector. If he is not doing those, then he is not a good superintendent. If a principal is not a friend to a teacher, if they have personal situationals that they can help them with, the teachers will not confide in him. He has that responsibility to do it. He must be humanistic and understanding. He cannot be authoritarian at all, unless the teacher forces him to. If the teacher forces him...let the teacher know that you have forced me to act in an authoritarian way in our relationship and at any time you want to become humanistic we will go back and work on that basis.

Q: Very good.

A: Also, you cannot, as principal....You cannot say I am going to satisfy every teacher in the building. If you do try this you are going to fail. You cannot satisfy every teacher. You are going to implement the policies of the school board and you are going to implement the policies of the school. You are going to implement the policies that you have promulgated as a principal. You are going to implement the policies of the assistant principal, the teachers, counselors etc. You must be an instructional leader. If you are not an instructional leader you have lost the school. No question about it. A lot of times, you find a principal who will say, "no I am not the instructional leader of this institution." "I have an assistant principal of instruction who takes care of that." "Oh no! I am not an administrational leader. I have an assistant principal for administration." Thats bad.... you are ultimately responsible for each of those positions even though you have someone else implementing the position. They are going to implement according to your you have to be that way.

Q: I appreciate your philosophy. We are talking about Theory X and Theory Y. From what is indicated, you are sort of a democratic leader.

A: Right!

Q: Mr. Lovett how did you evaluate the teachers? What techniques did you use to make your teachers feel important?

A: Very Good Question! In fact, that is the backbone question of any school. How do you make teachers feel that they are important? You make teachers feel important by saying to them this is your room. Once that bell sounds this is your room. If you want to refuse admission then you may do so. I would tell them that if the superintendent comes and wants to come in your room, and you don't want him in there, say, "I am sorry but I will see you after class. ...the assistant superintendent for instruction, the governor, and even the sheriff with a warrant. You still do not have to let him in that room. That is your domain and I expect for you to operate effectively within that domain. I know that you are not going to be utopic, I expect you to consult me. I expect you to consult the assistant principal for instruction for cues that's going to help those students in that room to gain more experience in terms of what you are teaching. Also, I expect you everyday, not one day, but everyday that you teach to write in the upper left hand corner of the board the word objective. If you want to make a sign thats okay. Then write on that board, what the behavioral objectives will be for that day. I say behavorial because they are the kind of objectives that can be measured. If you had three objective you would not put them on the board but you would have the students put them on the board. I expect you to have basically three part... lesson. We do not consider roll call. You do not call thirty names. You call the three that are not there.... We expect you to have an introduction to the lesson. If you are teaching sociology or biology we expect an introduction. ...then you should have a laboratory or laboratory period ...and after the laboratory should have a sharing period or sharing phase. You may call them phases. Introduction phase, laboratory phase, and sharing phase. Okay! What do I mean by each of those. Introduction is nothing more than background to what you are going to study about those three objectives on the board today. In the laboratory period they are going to discover how they are going to solve those three obectives on the board today. What different approaches can I do. This is just like a surgeon in an operating room. He is in his laboratory phase of performance. The same thing is true of that teacher. Okay! Once that has been done, then we say Okay... lets come back together and we are going to share what we have learned ..about those three objectives on the board today.

Q: How can you do it?

A: Many ways: Quiz, test, questions and answers, and by having a student stand and read the objective and have another student and answer the objective based on what he has done in the laboratory period. That is what we call closure. That closure to that lesson .... That is done and the problem.... then that teacher will say this is fun. I am going to work them based on those objectives in my room that Mr. Lovett has given me. This is mine and they feel good and secure, but lets take the opposite of that. The principal says now if anybody comes in to see you, you got to go out in the hall and talk to them. I am not going to back you up if you are not doing that. Well damn, he doesn't give a kitty about the schools. They are the kinds of things to teachers believe that you are really going to back them and that they are important in that school.

Q: What about evaluation? What method did you use to evaluate teachers? Was an evaluation used to retain or dismiss teachers? Did the students have input? Did teachers help to evaluate one another? Just what methods did you use?

A: We used various methods of teacher evaluation. You have to. I say that you have to because the school board say that you have to. The school board says here are six pages of an instrument for evaluation. We want you to evaluate teachers. You can't get around that, but you can set the stage in your school for that evaluation by letting the teachers know that this not an instrument to destroy your. This is an instrument that we are going to use that is going to help you. We will also do an item by item ... on this dog gone thing. If you are graded three on one, two on one, or four on one, we are going to say, "well okay she was graded four or three on twenty items. Why? Something that I haven't done because she should get a four. Okay! There is something that the assistant principal of instruction has not done because we expect you to get a four. Now if you did get a four in it because of something that we didn't do. Was the instrument well received? Sure it was.... Because it was not used as a threat....also, in addition to that we have day to day evaluation of a teacher. How? You go to the assistant principal of administration and say let's see John White's records. When he pulls it out and it is a yard long. You know, something is not right. John White is not doing the job. John White is not taking care of that room that I have given him. That's his home. Therefore, I have to help John White to eradicate the past and have a future that is bright. Another means of evaluation is walking down the halls. You walk down the halls past the classrooms. All you have to do is walk by the classroom. Walking past there, look in, there and you can tell if any teaching is going on...and you can tell if the students are interested in what they are doing...whether the students are working or if they are just goofing off. So that's what I call incidental evaluation. That's off the record. Okay! I observed this, this, this, however the next time I hear this... I will come by with the assistant principal and we will come in and sit down. There is still nothing in writing. The third time it will go in your file in writing. Therefore, you have all the time in the world to not be caught in the lurch. The next thing in evaluating teachers...and this is very, very, very, very, important. A lot of people will say that you are working, you are not doing the job....Details, none what so ever. But, what you must do is to say when it gets to that third stage, is to say okay! These are the negatives that we have found: one, two, three, four, and five. You are really writing a prescription. Okay! I want you to work with the assistant principal for instruction, I want you to work with me, and I want you to work with the department chair, and any eradicate those five things we have listed. The next thing is, how much time do you want us to give you to eradicate them. He says okay give me a month. I say oh no! I will give you six weeks. At the end of six weeks I will go back and say Okay! What about number one? You bet your bottom dollar he has done it. So that's how I would evaluate teachers.

Q: Outstanding! You mentioned just to look in and see teaching taking place.... In the last situation you sort of gave the responsibility back to the teacher and let him eradicate his own problem. That's very, very, good.

A: That's a must for that teacher and its a must in a teacher's life. If it is in black and white and they know what is expected of them. They are going to perform. They are going to perform.

Q: Did you face any pressure? What pressure did you face and how did you handle it?

A: There is no question that you face pressure. You face pres sure from the suprintendent, assistant superintendent, students, parents, and teachers. Why I say the superintendent. I am not saying all.... I am saying some.... Some superintendents are very inhumane. They are very autocratic and when that happens, you know there is pressure. You will do so and so by so and so. You will not have a hundred suspensions in your school for this month. You will not have any explusions in your school. You will not have students walking around in the halls. That you will not ...therefore, that is a pressure. Parents will put pressure on you when undoubtedly time comes for graduation and their child is notified before graduation that she is not going to graduate. Oh my God! You talk about pressure, you have some pressure.

Q: I know. How do you react to it?

A: Objectively, according to the records. Let the parents come in and see the record. This is what the records indicates. If you can tell me where the record is wrong and show me then we do not have any problem. We will change it. If you can't then we have to stand by the records. Then the parent will jump on that and and want to break his neck. Then the pressure is off of you.

Q: Right!.

A: You can also bring pressure upon yourself when it is not there. What do I mean by that? ...When I was at Hampton as an assistant principal, when I first went there, I would go help him wake up in the morning, and say, "whats going to happen today?" I anticipated problems. As you anticipate problems of course, you put extra pressure on yourself. If you have teachers that you can't cope with and you don't know what to do to get them to be productive, that's a pressure. How do you cope with it? You cope with it objectively and with a pen.

Q: I know that it is a problem especially at graduation time with the added parental pressure. What about handling teacher grievances? Did you ever fire a teacher? Do you mind elaborating on that for a few minutes?

A: I fired one teacher. I did not really do that. The principal....I was the assistant principal at that time. This teacher was a math teacher, excuse me an English Teacher, and there were certain things that she was not doing in the class room. Basically...not covering the curriculum. The teacher did not cover the curriculum because the teacher did not know certain parts of the curriculum, so she would avoid it. The part of that curriculumwas actually English Literature, ...the work of the different poets, break- ing it down so the kids could understand it. The motivation behind the writing....So she avoided it. The principal and the teacher were at each other throats. It was a black-white situation. It was a black teacher and a white principal. I told him this.... I said, "that you are not going to solve this situation." I said "may I handle it." He said "yes". What did I do? I got the supervisor of instruction for the school system, the teacher, and myself, the assistant principal for instruction together and I said, "okay Ms. X, supervisor, and Ms.Y teacher. I want you to get together to give me in writing that which the two of you have agreed upon as being deficiencies in this particular class. ...As far as instruction is concerned. Which they did. ...So I asked Ms. X supervisor and Ms. Y teacher are these the grievances that you all have decided upon as being deficient. The both of them said yes. what did I do?

Q: What did you do?

A: I wrote down the facts that they had agreed ... to have this conference. Then we had a time span for eradication of those grievancies. When we came back, ...the teacher had not done anything. You would never guess what she had done?

Q: She kept avoiding the issue.

A: Do you know what she said? "I kept reading the dictionary." There was nothing in the prescription about the dictionary. The prescription was that she was to go to summer school and take some courses in that particular phase of the curriculum and to do some individual reading. Those were her alternatives. I went back to the principal and told him what had happened and he really had to look went to the Head, the state and both times we were upheld. I told let me go. They could not believe that the teacher had done that. She said, "yes, that is what I did, but I want my job."

Q: Was she a tenured or nontenured teacher?

A: She was nontenured.

Q: How can we improve education? How can we improve teachers? What can be done?

A: Simple process! Very simple process to improve teachers. If you go to any school in any system and you go in there and sit in that room for one hour or for three different class periods...or for one particular day follow that teacher. You will find that teachers are teaching something, kids are learning something. Students are not aware of what is to be done that particular day, how it is to be done we are going to apply it in life. I will give you an example. In a math class we may study about parabolas. I said to a class, "why learn about a parabola in algebra? I said Okay, I am very hungry I am going to get me a burger. The kids hands flew up. McDonalds! McDonalds! The "M" is a parabola. Both of them.

Q: That's right Who did it?

A: The math people did it. So, What I am saying is, students will not do this. They don't associate. What I would suggest is again objectives. I brought that to the city of Hampton. I was rebuked by the members of HEA, Hampton Education Association, because of this. I stuck to it. What are they doing now? They are having them to put them on the board in every class in the city of Hampton. That must be done for this gives direction to students. A student will go in and ask what is expected of us today. The teacher says-through behavorial objectives we discussed before-I will be able to do such and such. Isn't that great? Then we go through the laboratory period, the sharing period, and then at the end, the teacher finds out whether or not she has done what she says they will be able to do that day. If you could get that in every classroom in your building, then you will have smooth sailing. It would not be a Helter Skelter kind of thing. That's what must happen in education. For instance, we talk about curriculum. Now curriculum is going to determine a lot of outcome. Once you accept the curriculum, then the implementation of the curriculum and the development comes every day right there. Management by Objectives. Behavorial objectives at that. Determine whether or not it has been done. Teachers do not want to do that. Why? Because when you turn your objective into the assistant principal of instruction and say that upon the completion of this lesson the student will be able to answer object number one with 80 degree efficiency, the common answer is okay. I want to give a quiz on objective number one. You have 30 people in your class. Eighty percent of that is twenty four. So twenty four got to get a B. If I do not say that, then I am not responsible for that.

Q: We are having a particular problem in my school system.

A: Where are you?

Q: Surry County.

A: What is the problem?

Q: The problem is sort of a low keyed problem. We are having a high degree of failures. What we have done is that we are into the no pass no play with athletics, extra curricular, and all of that.

A: Thats a lot of bull. I want that to be heard.

Q: What has happened though, is that we have some class where fifty three percent of the students have gotten F grades. Where does that responsibility fall?

A: It falls on the teacher. What you have is a motivational problem in Surry County. It is not with eve#y teacher. It is a very easy thing to eradicate. Maybe not with the teachers that you have. You may have to do a little research to find out where most of the negative motivation is occuring. You can do that very easily. You find out where the F's are coming from. Then what you need to do is to sit down with that teacher and say, "look, what does this tell you?" Have her to answer. She may say that these students just can't learn. There is no such thing. I have devised an educational success plan. It is called Educational Success Enterprises Incorporated. It is copyrighted and I have a business license in the city of Hampton. The next thing is to get parents involved in a situation like that. Have the parents to say that I will do what I can to help any student get out of this trauma. I think also that you should look at the groups that getting the F's. Are they homo or hetero?

Q: Both.

A: If they are hetero, then I am looking at that teacher very definite. If they are homo I said break that up. Then one student would motivate another. Those students go in that class room and when they come across that door to sit down, they are going to do one or two things. They are going to cause that teacher a hell of a lot of problems, or they are going to sit there and clock watch. Make sure that those eachers are relating what they are teaching to something that is live today. You can do it by taking those kids out to something in the community and showing them how this course is effecting this particular thing. If it is mathematics you take them to, lets say, Smithfield to the meat packing plants, let them see the machines going. Did an English teacher do that? No! A math teacher did that or a mathamatician did that.

Q: This is Exposure.

A: Right! We talk about transportation. They have all those big trucks. They provide a service. If we are talking about English. We simply want you to understand what I am talking about. I don't care if you use , but first I want you to be able to understand what I am talking about. In order to do that we have to go through a series of experiences that will affect; your understanding of what I speak about. For instance, I will tell you nematode thats a word. That group would not know what I am talking about no more than a man in the moon. I know, because I came through biology here and thats a round worm. What! That's a round worm. Don't stop there. Have the worm there and show him. Let him feel and touch it. When you go home, you dig up a nematode and I am going to give you a one hundred. If you get me one. What is that guy going to do? He is going to do it because he is turned on to reality of education. Its learning for the sake of learning or learning for the sake of not learning. I would like to work with you with that problem.

Q: I am going to present it to our superintendent and see what we can do. I was talking with a fellow today and we agree, I have said over and over that I think its a motivation problem and, hopefully, we can come up with something. We would like to keep it low keyed. We definitely do not want it to hit the media and we want to work it out.

A: You will work it out because I have something that I am going to give you and I will work with you on it. As a matter of fact, I have a meeting at the Sheraton Hotel on the 20th, in the board room, at 10:00 p.m. to set up a business. I want to go national with it. Really, on just what you are talking about: Motivational techniques and also organizational techniques, organization of time, time schedule, reading lists, assignment sheets. What does a parent say when the student comes home. "What do you have for homework tonight?" "Oh, I don't have anything. Now we are to conclude through this thing that I will show you.

Q: Okay, all right.

A: You have a motivational problem and an instructional problem. It is not the fault of the teacher because the teacher does not know how to get out of the dilemma. It is your responsibility to get that teacher and the students out of that dilemma. You have possibly three teachers who believe that the more students fail, the better it is for them.

Q: Thats a negative philosophy.

A: Yes, but you have it and they will poke their chest out. I failed twenty students or twenty students failed my class. They can't learn etc. It is a very easy thing to eradicate. Very easy thing to eradicate.

Q: I Will Stay in Touch with you on that because we will be working on it.How did you handle the Civil Rights Issue?

A: Very simply by saying every student has a right to every water fountain in this building. It belongs to everybody in this building. The cafeteria belongs to everybody. The gymnasium, is when we come in there together its a togetherness for everybody. You can sit where you want to sit. You have a responsibility. This is your school. This is not a black school. This is not a white school. This school belongs to everybody. If you want to proclaim that it is black then I am going to see what we can do to remove you from our integrated community. If you are white and you say that this is going to be a white school then we are going to see what we can do to remove you from our integrated community. Or get you to come in with us. That's what youmust do. Students will know whether or not you are sincere. If you are sincere and come from the top then they are not going to go into those little pockets of isolation.

Q: What do you think about merit Pay?

A: Oh heck, I don't believe in no merit pay. Merit pay is nothing more than a political scheme. What would happen is that the teacher who have been there for a number of years and have caused no particular problem, has been buddy buddy with the assistant principal of instruction or the principal or the superintendent? They are going to get that money. I have not seen an objective instrument developed yet that could tell that you are a better teacher than this teacher. When you do that, you will have to have an individual instrument for each teacher. Why? Because we say that we are more alike than we are different, but every teacher is different from every other one, therefore; you could not have a common instrument for measurement.

Q: I agree. What was your key to success as a principal? Did you have a code of ethics?

A: It was a very hard job and a very simple job. To be successful as a principal You have to be a man. You have to be a man. You have to stand on your own two feet and believe in what you believe in and implement what you believe in. If it is anti-superintendent it is just anti-superintendent. If it is anti-school board it is just anti-school board. If it is anti-teacher it is just anti-teacher. If it is anti-parents it is just anti-parents. If it is anti-student... and you have to do that. If it so happen that all of us are together that is fine, but if we are not then you have to say that I am not for that and it will not be that way as long as I am principal here. If you don't then all you are is an instrument of dissemenation for the policies promulgated by the school board, by the parents, by the student, and eve#ybody else. What you are going to do is go into your office get a gun and blow your brains out, because you cannot satisfy everybody and you are not a man.

Q: I agree. Mr. Lovett you are doing an outstanding job I wish that we could go on and on but I want to put the ball on your court. What have I not asked you that I should know about doing an effective job?

A: I think the questions you have asked have been very inclusive. However, I feel that one must be a friend to man, a friend to students, one must be a friend to parents, one must understand the dilemma of students. One must understand that the student problems are just as large as or larger than the problems of adults. One must be available twenty four hours a day to help in need, a parent in need. One must not be afraid to stand up and say that I am a man and I can solve any problem that you have with the exception of two and they are death and taxes.

Q: I want to thank you. You have done an outstanding job and I'm certainly glad that I had the opportunity to interview you.

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