Roanoke Times
Copyright (c) 1995, Landmark Communications, Inc.
DATE: FRIDAY, January 24, 1992 TAG: 9201240335
SECTION: VIRGINIA PAGE: B1 EDITION: NEW RIVER VALLEY
SOURCE: DOUGLAS PARDUE STAFF WRITER
DATELINE: BECKLEY, W.VA. LENGTH: Long
INFORMANT DETAILS DRUG DEALS
Robert Seidman, a confidential government informant, on Thursday gave a federal jury a detailed look at how he used his years of drug dealing experience to talk a Covington businessman into arranging a $60,000 cocaine deal.The ultimate question for the jury, which could get the case late today or Monday, is whether the businessman, Victor Cucci, was pushed into the deal or was a willing participant.
If Cucci, owner of Cucci's Pizzeria, was pushed by a persuasive Seidman into something he otherwise would not have done, the jury could acquit him, deciding that it was illegal government entrapment.
But Cucci could get 40 years if the jury agrees with the government's contention. Prosecutors claim Cucci willingly tapped into his connections with underworld figures from New York and Sicily who were capable of bringing 50 to 100 kilogram loads of cocaine into the mountains of West Virginia.
In more than a day and a half of testimony in the cramped federal court here, Seidman, a 51-year-old lifelong drug dealer and addict, showed the jury how the deceptive, suspicious world of drug dealers works. He is a convicted drug dealer who agreed to work for the government in hopes of avoiding a 20-year sentence hanging over him.
In secret taped conversations Seidman made of talks between himself and Cucci last year, Seidman showed himself to be keenly persuasive. Over several months he managed to repeatedly persuade a reluctant Cucci to arrange and participate in a drug deal.
In an earlier interview with the Roanoke Times & World-News, Cucci conceded that he arranged the cocaine deal, but said he did it only as a favor for Seidman.
His attorney, Gregory English of Alexandria, admitted to the jury at the beginning of the trial that Cucci did make the arrangements. But, he said, Cucci stupidly thought it was no crime to introduce two people so they could do something illegal.
In almost all of more than 30 taped conversations played for the jury, Cucci says he wants nothing to do with the deal, the cocaine or the money. He says he is just trying to help Seidman, who had managed to convince Cucci that he was a reliable friend.
"I don't want nothing out of it. I just think you a good man to know, good friend. I like your family, and that's the reason I do this thing for you," Cucci told Seidman in one conversation.
The tapes show how Seidman got to that point by spending weeks building Cucci's confidence, even bringing his wife and daughter along on some of the meetings.
In cross-examination Thursday, English tried to show that Seidman also played on Cucci's need to sell cars at a troubled Toyota dealership he had bought last year.
English pointed out that on a couple of occasions when Cucci tried to back out of arranging the cocaine deal, Seidman deftly changed the conversation and talked about how he was going to buy lots of cars from Cucci. Then Cucci would agree to try to make the cocaine arrangements with his contact in New York.
"Listen, I'm gonna buy some cars from ya," Seidman promised.
"I need to sell cars, Bob, real bad," Cucci said at one point.
"Well I'm gonna buy two," Seidman said. He also promised to send more customers over.
According to the tapes, Cucci began to get more involved in the cocaine deal because his New York contacts didn't want to deal with Seidman, whom they did not know.
In cross-examination, Seidman said he began to realize Cucci had gotten caught in the middle because his contacts wanted to make the deal, but only if Cucci handled the money transaction.
Cucci says on one tape that his New York contact threatened his life if anything went wrong.
"If anything goes wrong my life's in jeopardy," Cucci told Seidman. Seidman told the jury that he took that as a threat from Cucci.
But on the tapes Cucci told him the contacts were worried about informers and only wanted to deal with people they trusted.
"A lot of people can get hurt by infiltration," Cucci said on one tape. Then Cucci repeated that he was just doing a favor for Seidman and didn't even want anything to do with the actual deal.
"I don't want nothing. There's nothing for me, Bob."
Seidman replied, "I feel bad."
Cucci responded, "No, don't feel bad. . . . Maybe someday I'll need a favor."
On July 25 the deal did come down and Cucci agreed to help make the transaction at his cabin near Covington. But when he agreed, he again told Seidman, "This is the first and last time I want to do this."
Seidman responded. "I understand."
"Serious, I'm serious," Cucci repeated. "I, I, I just don't feel right."
Cucci's attorney contended in cross-examination that Seidman badgered Cucci into the deal despite Cucci's hesitancy and pangs of conscience. English said Seidman needed to get Cucci or the government wouldn't recommend leniency for him on his drug conviction. "You hope to get off with probation?" English asked.
"I do. I hope so, sure," Seidman answered.
Asked if that's why he didn't let Cucci get out of the deal when Cucci tried a couple of times, Seidman said, "He didn't say `no'."
"But you kept pestering him," English said.
Seidman explained that he dealt with Cucci like some men might deal with a woman on a date.
"If I was out with a girl and she said `no,' I would back off - he didn't say no."
Memo: shorter version ran in the Metro edition.