Interview with Robert R. Rexrode

1/11/87

Q: How many years were you in education as a teacher?

(Streamed audio file of interview for this question using RealPlayer)

A: Really, it was seven (7) years for full classroom instruction. However, five (5) of those were doubling as school instructor of fourth grade and serving as the principal of the school.

Q: How many years were you in education as a principal?

A: Twenty (20) years as just a regular administrator.

Q: At which schools were you the principal and for how many years at each?

A: At the time I taught fourth grade, it was a dual title. It didn't apply to me but some people used it and changed it later. I served as head teacher and principal, and Dr., excuse me, Mr. Aylor was superintendent then, he referred to it as a principalship, it was a total of five (5) years. And then I went to Robinson Memorial School and from that, Kernstown School which is a four (4) room school. With Robinson Memorial, we had the first through sixth grades and then they onset a public kindergarten came while I was there nine (9) years. And during the annexation of Winchester, we finished the sixth grade out and then dropped back to five (5) years, including grades 1 through 5 and then picked up kindergarten that latter four (4) years I was there. Then from Robinson, I went to Bass Hoover Elementary and served there eleven (11) years. There we had kindergarten through grade 6. I believe I should have said that I began teaching at Stephens City Elementary and taught there.

Q: Why did you decide to become principal?

A: I was challenged to, to begin with, by my current principal, H. Dennis Hoover, explained that there was a vacancy coming up the third year of my teaching tenure. And I interviewed with the superintendent knowing that I wanted to stay in elementary education. I thought about high school at one time after I started to teach, but then I felt there was a satisfaction working with elementary children was sufficient for my roll so I went ahead knowing that I would still be teaching and serving as principalship, not knowing that eventually I would be offered a fulltime principalship because teaching was my first love, so to speak, at that time.

Q: What is your philosophy of education?

A: I strongly believe that our roll as professional educators is to help a child integrate and use all of the potentiality he has. In other words, to very simply put it, to do everything as a leadership challenge for a child to develop and become a "well-rounded individual" rather than emphasizing certain strengths and weaknesses. I don't think you can identify those but I think you try to heighten the enthusiasm they have for certain area or subject and then try to assist them with any other areas so that they can be functional in all areas of society.

Q: What pressures did you face as a principal?

A: First, time was the big factor. Particularly when I say, the first nine (9) years I was at the Kernstown School, to get enough time after planning lessons and teaching all day long, having no secretary and doing the banking of funds. We had a satellite lunch program, and of course, you had to collect money, etc.,etc. So it was the time I spent on weekends doing the accounting and banking without any secretarial help. So the first thing was time, finding enough time, and then I suppose later on, it was time utilization. I went back to the full principalship because I was tired of trying to assist the staff in servicing as well as helping them monitor a child's progress. It was a matter of placing emphasis in time utilization.

Q: As a principal, what was your biggest highlight?

A: I suppose it was the year that I served with the staff of Bass Hoover Elementary. We had the first class who entered kindergarten to complete the fifth grade and in that particular year, Aylor had dropped from being a junior high to a middle school so there was a lot of anxiety on the part of students and parents about the premonition so we began what became an annual affair of having Fifth Grade Highlight Night. And the warmth and appreciation of parents and students and the total staff, it wasn't that I had done so much but just the cooperative effort that paid off so much in dividends for the students that attended school.

Q: As a principal, what was your biggest headache?

A: You won't believe this when I say bus transportation. Because we were, the last year I was serving there, we were loading a group of ten (10) buses on the same designated bell. And that coupled with the routes, the stops and the impending tensity of population around the Stephens City area, it was almost a fulltime administrative detail.

Q: What was the toughest decision you had to make as a principal and why was it diffucult?

A: Assisting a professional teacher. Come to the awareness that their effectiveness as a classroom instructor was no longer adequate for the class that you desired to teach.

Q: What was your key to success as a principal?

A: I truly believe I have somewhat a gift, if you will, of "reading people" and I describe it as learning their tenor which is the whole embodiment and the intent to be effective in an education and utilizing that as each step in the Frederick County
Schools. And that's why we taught teamtalk - the active team
function activities.

Q: What consumed the majority of your time as principal?

A: Again, I will have to say transportation. The bus situation. And I will say positive things, and that's instructing and safety procedures, on-going counseling of individuals who may have disagreements and reports from drivers, the transportation.

Q: Describe your relationship with the teachers and with the parents?

A: First, I need to mention, at that time, that I was fortunate to have a great individual and an excellent educator as an assistant principal, Mrs. Breitling. So our game plan after the former principal and who was my mentor in teaching retired and she came on board, we just developed a game plan to be sure that everybody counted as an individual. Professional and as an instructor. So we organized two different things. We organized a concern committee to insure they had representation and to cover input and share concerns and joys and, if you will, sorrows of families of education seen at the school. This was a concern for many. And then we had an IIC, which was an Instructional Improvement Council, whereby we were again sure that the representations rotated every year and they had direct input as well as complaints, objective suggestions for improving not only the annual and providing the school plan but on a weekly basis in direction of the school. So it's very close. We had a very good situation going from an old school setting in Stephens City to the new building so we ran ourselves ragged the first month. At the school meeting every grade level parent came on a given night. The teachers were there for that event. to a steering committee which were the organizers work this out and coming up with the parent-teacher organization which was referred to as a PTA. So we have a very strong PTO. Not just as supportive for financial needs and projects but again, they have representations through an educational search and concern committee themselves that had representatives sitting on the bi-annual school plan council. We reached out to the parents. They would come forward and let us know when there was a problem with a child. Very close and warm.

Q: How did you handle discipline at yopur schools?

A: First, I will state what I believe was and still should be, the blunt phrase that the "Classroom teacher is Queen" meaning that she develops the ground rules. It's her room that first day of school and particularly throughout the first week. I know it's a hard-nosed approach but in the structural approach where each child feels that he is acknowledged and he knows what the rules of his room are, that he helps to develop, by the way. And I am the assistor rather than the interferer, as a person who is there to assist with "specifics." There's a lot of counseling, not only by guidance counselors, but by all of us involved. So we developed a FYI form, self-communicating FYI, for your information, and the teachers get a copy, the guidnce counselors get a copy. So, consequently, if the child has some inadequacy in his relationships, which is showing a pattern, we were able to use a developmental approach. But that was no question about the principal being the one who would oversee or leave out corporal discipline was necessary.

Q: How many teachers and school personnel were employed at each of the schools you were principal at?

A: With the Kernstown School situation, there were the four (4) teachers including myself teaching fourth grade. We had no aides at that time, of course, and I would say we has no secretary for the first three (3) years. And then we did get a secretary for two (2) hours in the morning the 3rd, 4th, and 5th year I was there, which was a tremendous help for all concerned. Then going to Robinson School, we had a total of 18 teachers. Again, instructional; aides were not even a suggested budget item at the time. Then when we aquired the kindergarten. That's after having Head Start School, that's one of the phrases used for it. Then we started picking up an aide who worked with the teachers every summer and then we were able to start in the following Fall to have an aide for the primary group, and then the 3rd year, after that the onset of kindergarten, we had four (4) for the 3rd and 4th graders. So then we were up to something like 22 on the staff there. There we had a self- contained cafeteria also, a manager plus four (4) workers under my supervision. And there was a full-time janitor and then two (2) night housekeepers. At Bass Hoover, of course, the size of the school picked up considerably and demanded more staff. So with Chapter 1 Classes that were demanded because of the large enrollment, we had a staff of 47 instructional personnel which included the guidance counselor, the librarian, the assistant principal and myself. In addition to those, the support personnel included ten (10) cafeteria workers and the manager was one of those ten (10), and two (2) full-time day janitors and three (3) night housekeepers. Then later we were able to acquire an instructional aide for each grade level at one time, so there were six (6) additional people as instructional aides.

Q: How much of a part did the principal have in the recruitment and selection of new teachers?

A: First, we wanted to see the handwriting on the blackboard, so to speak, come Spring about the promotions, reassignments and put in a request the latter years to be an assistant to the superintendent in personnel. So we would make that known and then by that time, the staff would have visited college campuses and know the school, so to speak. And then he would get back to me and say I believe that so and so, when can we set up an interview with you and, of course, it was up to me as to how I was to handle it. Usually, on the off season, in the latter part of June when the teachers are not around, Mrs. Breitling, the assistant, and I did the interview first at the local level, asnd then sent the candidate back to the superintendent's office with a recommendation from us for his consideration and for the interviewing as to policy, and the things we didn't cover at the local level. Then the third stage of that was, that the assistant superintendent of personnel and I would get together outside of the interview and make a decision as to who we thought was best.

Q: So together you made the decision?

A: Yes. And, of course, the superintendent. As you know, this is the policy in Virginia to make a recommendation to the School Board. In latter years, once we had our team more settled, when things became more fixed and settled, we would involve them. At least the representative from that team of teachers and we would include one of the teachers.

Q: What role did you play in the induction to their new position?

A: We, the assistant principal and I, would get together as soon as we had someone selected by the School Board and give that person, make the person welcome_on the phone and invite them to come in any time during the Summer, that they had to sit down and review their philosophy, approach and we would try to let them feel their way into the organization. And then there was always pre-school workshop days that took place early, and besides instruction supervisory personnel at the County level, we would also work with them on a school level, just the two of us. And by that time, many times, teachers were anxious that the Summer was getting over and they were coming back.

Q: How was all the information about teachers and school personnel collected and stored at your schools?

A: Usually, I would get a sheet of preferences. A profile of the applicant's background and education , and in the earlier years, we would duplicate some parts of that and keep a file at the local school. But then when we moved, we felt that there had to be one oversight of those files, so the assistant superintendent put those back in. However, when we had the first interview level at the local school, then we would make notes a develop a file, a personnel file, on that person and maintain it for approximately five (5) years, even if the person was not hired in that position. Because we felt it was good information to have and they might come up for reconsideration, so we developed a tentative file so if that person came on board, then that became their confidential file.

Q: You didn't use computers?

A: No. While we did set up a computer lab, we did not get to the point of developing the aims that we discussed many times in IIC, Instructional Improvement Council, of formatting that so that we could have information in the files.

Q: Who at your schools were responsible for planning and conducting the staff development?

A: Of course, I have the complete responsibility and oversight of that, but I relied very heavily on the assistant principal of instruction. Throughout the years, we worked together. I might suggest a certain area we would want to use - pre-planned program or some facet of it to highlight something like universal skills and relationships. She makes suggestions. So cooperativelu, we would come up with a loose plan and then take it to the council and get a final decision out of that.

Q: Did you have a special time for in-service? Like at our school, we have a certain day that we have in-service each month. Did you a time like that or just whenever you felt a need?

A: We did that some of the_ time. And it was only one year when we implemented the program that was copyrighted through the State of Virginia Department of Education in Charlottesville City, Albemarle County Schools in relation to the TIPS Program. Teaching Individual Positive Strategies, that we were able to get that because we had a consultant from up at Charlottesville and that was done very well. We were able to hire substitutes and have teachers free for half a day, and that's the ideal and effective way to do it. But we only had that one year. It was up to the classroom teachers to actually apply the program within their social studies or whatever they taught. However, when they started internally working out a plan whereby the instructional aides plus the rest of the team might have responsibility for a certain number of_ students after 3:00 because once we started dismissing, 2/3rds of the school was gone at 3:05. All of the buses left, so we would pasrticularly do a great deal with computer awareness and instruction. So we used 3:00 to 3:45 basically as a time about every other week to do that.

Q: Did your school handle teacher's grievances? What was the policy of teacher's grievances?

A: Of course, early on, the County School Board took an approach to develop grievance policy and it was more or less presented the teacher's association for review and acceptance. And that was the time when there was a much more ease of relationship between the teachers' association and boards in general in Virginia. Ours was not a typical, very typical of that. Then later, with the state mandates, the procedures developed in the State Department of Education were recommended . It was revised to the point where it was the State Board's version and the instructional staff more or less came under that as "an employee". So there was a manual in the principals' office and in the librarians' office at each school.

Q: How did you evaluate teachers?

A: We developed, with the standards of quality having given guidelines to evaluations of instructional personnel, not so much in support personnel or administrative people. We just developed our own handbook of evaluations of classroom teachers. We used that as an approach for providing three (3) phases. One, two, three, and by the time you got down to three, we were doing assessment with the teacher after she had developed her own goals for that year. And then, of course, in more recent years, we used the format that the Georgia State Department of Education had adopted with one of their professors at the University. Used the format and in-serviced the administrative people. Came up with our version of the assessment instrument that is used now on the level of instructional, administrative, supervisory, and support staff which is currently in practice in Frederick County. And that was utilized more heavily since instructional supervisors in the County teamed up and were assigned their tasks. The principal selected approximately a third of the staff each year and helped them track their effectiveness, their goals that were set together, designed to measure effectiveness and accomplishment. This, of course, was on a three-year time block schedule and it fits in very well with teachers attaining tenure in Frederick County. Of course, the third year then we decide whether to grant continuing contract.

Q: Did you ever have to fire a teacher? Can you discuss the issue?

A: I have already made reference to the most difficult thing I've had to do. And, yes, I did have to write a letter of recommendation for dismissal to the superintendent. Of course, there was was verbalization sharing on the subject at that time. As I said, it was very difficult. I had no doubts and I didn't hesitate to try to guide the individual to have the awareness that she had skills and ares that she could probably be very successful in. But, again, it's hard to get someone to see something when they are too close to the problem. That was a difficult situation.

Q: Did you feel that your teachers were well compensated or underpaid, and why?

A: They were certaintly underpaid. Time was one of the things that showed that. To teach a full day without having full-time aides for the size of class we had to maintain, it wasn't just a physical structure, but it limited itself to that kind of larger educational setting. The teacher just had to spend numerous hours after 3:30 at school and still at home. And there was just no way that she compensated for the amount of time that she was spending without the students. While materials were generally adequate, they also put out a great deal of personal money from time to time because they felt that they needed to supplement things. Although I should state that PTO's - PTA's during my tenure, the many years I was in education, were very helpful. But it seemed like there were still that many teachers actually spent much of their personal money to secure_ additional materials for education.

Q: What programs did your school system have for its professionals to provide security? (for example, things like insurance, savings accounts, IRAs, retirement, etc.)

A: Of course, we had the payroll deduction for the usual Virginia supplemental retirement program which it is a state program and all public schools participate in that. And then the group insurance Blue Cross/Blue Shield was handled the same way. And the School Board did pay for one of the spouse who was teaching. For example, in a family and if both happened to be teaching, then you would give each an individual premium and then if you had family insurance, you had to add to that. But at least it was payroll deductible and they managed it that way. Then in the latter years, we have the options - we have the option now of investing in tax shelter annuity and qualified plan. There are three (3) which I won't name at this time that are allowed and a teacher has a selection from an agent and then to authorize that by a form to the School Board so there is that additional savings program. And, of course, fringe benefit, using the phrase broadly, sick leave bank was established. And was very helpfel when teachers did have some operation or other and needed recovery time. Of course, personal leave days which are sometimes referred to as emergency days were earned per term, but they were not sick leave days.

Q: What type of planning progrm did your school set up? (3 year plan, 6 year plan?)

A: We had annual plans initially, and we, it was an on-going situation assessing the effectiveness through our instructional improvement council and then particularly in the Spring through the committee for parent membership.

Q: How involved were you in the planning program? Did you go to all the meetings?

A: With the exception of some subcommittees who might have studied, for example, and did study it - how volunteers might be more effective. Then I did not sit in on that committee as a consultant. Usually the assistant principal would take this responsibility. I did participate in other committees.

Q: Did your school have problems with continuity problems with things such as absenteeism, personal leave, death, reassignment or transfers?

A: We had a large staff and, therefore during communicable disease season, it was nothing unusual to have as many as five (5) teachers on a given morning come down with illness. We had a hard time to get substitutes. No one really abused the responsibilty of taking sick leave or emergency days with the exception. And I must state that exception - the teacher who had to be released was the one who abused that responsibility. Other than that, I was very proud of the staff who were very responsible.

Q: Do you believe that on a personal leave that the teachers should be able to suggest personal leave or do you want the teacher to tell you why?

A: I really believe we need to show them professional trust that they do hold and accept their application and know that they have a definate need and not question it.

Q: Were kindergartens part of the elementary schools when you became principal?

A: No, they were not. I started earlier that at Kernstown School, we just had the first grade as the six (6) year age requirement. And then at Robinson School again, there just remained first grade until the third year I was there and then, there was kindergarten. Had just one class to begin with which a long half day and then as you know we went to a.m. session and p.m. session.

Q: How did you feel about adding this level?

A: We welcomed it. I welcomed it. The staff welcomed it. We had no big pre-first grade program which is usually called headstart two (2) years before and Frederick County said they had been given an option to start a year earlier that they were mandated to do so. And we used that option and were very pleased with headstart in kindergarten.

Q: How did you and the teachers at your school feel about open school rooms?

A: I, along with all the personnel selected that go to Bass Hoover, which is a modular semi-open construction type of classroom organization, had anxieties at first but we decided to ask for professional assistance so we had the University of Virginia and had one of the field agents at that time come and help us in-service ourselves. We really let our hair down and did things in personal communicative skills that got us in an attitude to go from a closed classroom to an open. I should point out though, that we had done a little tasting and testing of ourselves at Robinson. We had taken down some interior walls and had the first grade suite together where two (2) teachers would work as a team and some volunteer parent aideship, so to speak there, in the Summer library program. So some of us, some of the teachers who chose, to go to the open concept, in particular, had seen what it could be but still we had to do a lot of in-servicing and letting your professional hair down so that we could be open enough to relate to one another. After all, openness is a concept, first of the mind and then educational philosophy.

Q: How open was Bass Hoover? I teach at Daniel Morgan and our wing has like ten (10) rooms that are all open and you can hear eachother. You can't really hear eachother. You can the ones way down at the end, But is it that open?

A: No, that's why I emphasize that it is modular semi-open and we didn't label them pods or cells or anything in particular, not that there's anything wrong with that terminology. We just referred to them as first grade instructional area, which was designed with two (2) entry/exit ways off a parallel hallway in the building so that a class and their teacher could enter the side that was closest to them. The best way to describe it was like an upside down U and you would face it in the hallway. And it had a self-contained room right in the center of the U where if those who were coming from a traditional approach needed some time, the teacher would take them and work with them. It also became a team at that time so it was a very well organize instruction area. All of the primaries right through the 5th grade were more organized that way. Kindergarten was more open. The only thing that distinguished between one home base unit and the next was just some light modular furniture.

Q: So there were like five (5) classrooms of first graders and five (5) ...?

A: Yes.

Q: I understand you were one of the early instigators of the guidance counselor for elementary schools. Could you explain that ?

A: Yes, they give a credit first that Stonewall Elementary had a guidance counselor come on to their staff and share with another second school a broken schedule twice a week. So they had the first endorsed elementary guidance counselor and then off the strength of assessment in tracking that program that year, we were successful in aquiring one for our school and for Middletown. At that time, we shared her for they are a small school.

Q: Alright, this is your sharing with Bass Hoover. This is when you were at Bass Hoover and Middletown. What year was that? Do you have any idea?

A: Yes. Yes, it was the Fall of 1977. The term 1977-1978.

Q: Why was it important to you to have a guidance counselor at the elementary schools?

A: The same situation that I recognize is the classroom teacher and that at the elementary schools, there were certain individuals who had not developed mentally, aquired certain communicative skills or coping skills of their own that a classroom teacher could not help immediate without some additional assistance. And going to the large school where we had 900 plus one particular year while I was there, it just showed the magnification of needs and teachers and teams would try to schedule themselves and work with individuals but still it wasn't enough. And the child learned to respond to a guidance counselor and, we found, much more readily and openly because she wasn't the one who gave the child grades. She is not "shackled" with the rigors of the day. She can meet parents when a teacher cannot and put it together for a child. So you got that on a conferring and conferencing with parents in a much deeper sense on an individual basis. And again, we found that the parents had less threat from the guidance counselor once she knew that she was really a human being. They had better trust in some areas.

Q: Did you have much trouble convincing the school system that you wanted a guidance counselor?

A: Not really because we had instructional supervisors who then, the foolowing year, became assistants in instruction who were convinced that, over the years as I was, that we needed this. So he went to bat pretty much for us at the School Board level.

Q: Explain how your parents organization at your school worked.

A: I have already made a reference to having a good steering committee. That steering committee consisted of one and sometimes two (2) parents who were willing to be the "representative" of a given grade level and meet together and make known what they saw were specific strengths and also needs of a given grade level but then started talking about school wide, if you will, school spirit even, at that level. So with their help, we soon had a school song, a school motto and a school color and then out of the steering committee, there was a subcommittee organized to study the possibility of whether to organize a formal PTA with or to look at what was bdcoming popular in some areas, a kind of parent-teacher organization. And after studying schools in the County and what have you, it was found that PTO would be the best twice, so we went ahead and let the subcommittee go ahead and draw up the by-laws of the organization and brought them to the General Assemby of the parents and explained and then we had an election of officers.

Q: How important or helpful was the PTO to you?

A: Very assisting. To Mrs. Breitling, the assistant principal and myself, I mention in that order because volunterrism became one of the most readily evident ways in which they can be effective on even a day-to-day basis. So we had been relating to a centralized overview person and that was the assistant principal of instruction, so on a given day of the week when they could be very effective in a functional way but then also the executive officers included us as ex-officio members of the rare executive council. And we appreciated that so much at the beginning while we did not actually voting rights with that name, we got all of our input and they would come even on an individual basis and discuss things. It was, I guess what I'm saying is, the planning as well as the individual stage was a very close relationship.

Q: Next, what specific issues in education occurred during the period when you were principal? We might want to discuss some of these. The one parent families, foreign students that came to your school, the new laws for special education for kids with special needs and integration. Any of these problems that you would like to talk about?

A: Well, all of the above. You see, I came into the County system when there was basically a basal program that was developed out of loose guidelines but again, just after I was in the County, we acquired the second instructional supervisor who became then the supervisor of special education. Fredrick County saw the need, as most counties did, and tried to do something about it by selecting a teacher and keeping on a regular contract rather than having any special ed monies. So I saw it developed from a basal reader approach, phonics and traditional math to modern math. We went through that era along with the development of special education programs. I do recall very specifically my first state elementary principals conferece and one of the sections of the seminars I attended was special education. I was appaled to know that 2/3rds of the people there really didn't know what special education was all about or what the need was. It was very mind boggling, to me. I saw that developing at our level, and I'm proud to say not just to blow the horn, but to say it was functional on our level. We had a handle on it when the stage came along to help fund it so we were in a better position to deal with the thing. And of course then, the basic learning skills would be a highlight that I can recall. First came as the usual directives to local school boards as a guide and then became mandatory. And again, the funding was always in arrears and not coming along but the standards, basic learning skills were. We, as most systems, had a lot of study and input into the field of testing of those and saw that they weren't implemented to any large degree. We went through another whole cycle. It's good to have a new interest, however, when we heard across the country that there should be a return to basics, the three (3) R's or whatever, we felt we have never left them. We tried to keep standards of the individual on an equal plane of learning all the while we were implementing and assessing.

Q: Integration? Did you have any problem?

A: No. No. We had no problem at all. It was really unique. In the last elementary school I served - the Stephens City community - I had black families that had roots a couple of generations back. In closing of - a child might have a grandparent who had attended the Douglas School when it was an all-black school, so that happened. The preparatory work was being done when I came to the system in 1959, and then in 1961 and 1962 term, we had that. We had a lesser percentage of blacks in a large school than some of the smaller schools had. And they felt comfortable. I really believe they felt comfortable. And I saw another minor transition when Middletown was closed and we, of course, were the receivers of consolodation. They had a larger percentage of blacks per classroom then we had. It worked very smoothly. As far as other ethnic groups, we did have instances, meaning experiences - lots of experiences where we had two (2) students come through us who knew nothing but hardcore Spanish. So we had very good understanding teaching teams and they felt it was best to assign the two Spanish students together. We reached the high school language deepartment to get someone from there to tutor from that school in the afternoons. So we had the first low key approach to bilingual instruction.

Q: The one-parent families, were you getting a lot of these when you were getting ready to leave the principalship? Were you having a lot of these in the schools? And were they causing a problem?

A: Yes to all the questions.

Q: Why did you leave this profession?

A: While it seemed abrupt decision for many who had worked with me closely over the years, it was not that. I had considered it for about three (3) years prior to making my decision. Then the particular term that I did decide to reside was for a dual reason. (1) I just felt at that time while I still had a contribution to make to education that I had gotten to the point where I didn't feel that I would be as an effective administrator in the same term as I wanted to be. And I also felt that while I am a person-to person individual, and wanting that kind of relationship, that there were other fields that I wanted to develop over the years. And I resigned and now I am gainfully self-employed into those fields that I wanted to take a step back in education and try them and see if I didn't have other contributions to make.

Q: Is there anything else that we've left out that you would like to add?

A: I believe we have a very through survey - an interview instrument. I would just like to say that personally I have always said, and still believe, that a professional educator is parallel if not secondary, it's parallel to the ministry of spiritual needs of an individual because you are dealing with the soul of a child at an important time of his life. I still believe that. That the education is really a profession that is on a par with the ministry And I would say then that in a broad sense, that while professions still have to contend_ with a lot of bureaucratic paperwork and documentation, look for the results of that in the molded life of an individual that you can see in a given year.

Q: I have another question. When you became principal instead of teacher, did you miss the close contact with the children?

A: You see, again, I was sort of, if you will, weaned from being a teacher to administration and I saw that in the field of education, it is the prospective in which you look ahead what your activities can have an effect on the individual child. So while, I still missed the classroom and being co administrator the first year at Robinson, I soon found that if you can reach out to the instructors to help them see that you are not just a dictatorial administrator, that you can still team and have a great deal of effect to assist them to do even a better job. So I made the transition and was pretty much satisfied in the realm of administration.

Q: Thank you for the interview. Thank you very much.

A: Thank you for including me.