VPIEJ-L Discussion Archives
========================================================================= Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 08:18:39 EDT Reply-To: Katharine Sharp Review <email@example.com> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <firstname.lastname@example.org> From: Katharine Sharp Review <email@example.com> Subject: The Katharine Sharp Review Inaugural Issue The Katharine Sharp Review ISSN 1083-5261 http://edfu.lis.uiuc.edu/review The Katharine Sharp Review, the premiere review of student scholarship in library and information science, announces the publication of its inaugural issue! KSR is published by the Graduate School of Library and Information Science at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and showcases student authors writing about issues that range from those that affect the core of contemporary librarianship to new concepts in network administration. Come take a look! Articles are available in both HTML and PDF formats. http://edfu.lis.uiuc.edu/review Table of contents: Louise F. Spiteri - The Classification Research Group and the Theory of Integrative Levels Peter McCracken - Disaster Planning in Museums and Libraries: A Critical Literature Review Shannon Crary, Jane Darcovich, Tracy Hull, & Anna Maria Watkin - The Advances of Technology: A Case Study of Two Midwest Academic Slide Libraries Steven E. Egyhazi - A Study of Interlibrary Loan of Video at Indiana University, Bloomington Michele Freed, Arthur Hendricks, Robert Sandusky, & Jian Wang - A Higher Level Information Tool for Network Administrators Robert Schroeder - Access vs. Ownership in Academic Libraries David Saia - Advocacy for Bibliographic Instruction: A Challenge for the Future + + Kevin Ward Editor The Katharine Sharp Review firstname.lastname@example.org http://edfu.lis.uiuc.edu/review + + ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:16:22 EDT Reply-To: Brian Gaines <email@example.com> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <firstname.lastname@example.org> From: Brian Gaines <email@example.com> Subject: Archiving mailing lists There has been some discussion on this list of archiving EJs. However, much scholarly discussion is now taking place through mailing lists, and does not get transferred to any form of journal. Unfortunately, most mailing list servers are set up to destroy their archives after 1 year. This was probably necessary in the days of expensive storage, but now that a 4G drive is under $1,000 it is a great pity that the primary list maintainer is not also maintaining a full record of the list. The KSI has been archiving some lists for research purposes, but has recently discovered that some lists of major historic importance apparently archived by others have been neglected, and substantial parts of the list archives have been lost. The Internet is so anarchic that it is difficult to conceive of a solution to the problem. One possibility would be a national archive where lists could be registered and mirrored. I believe the destruction of list archives may be even more significant than EJ archiving problems. By the time knowledge has been structured for a journal article it is often widely known, and the article's content can be regenerated fairly easily. Lists, however, capture the process of knowledge formation and what is in them is often surprising even to the contributors -- human memory continually reconstructs the past and the actual historic record is not regenerable. b. Dr Brian R Gaines Knowledge Science Institute University of Calgary firstname.lastname@example.org Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4 403-220-5901 Fax:403-284-4707 http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/KSI ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:16:54 EDT Reply-To: Scott Gillies <email@example.com> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <firstname.lastname@example.org> From: Scott Gillies <email@example.com> Subject: preservation of electronic information Dear Group (Please forgive the cross-posting), I am doing some research on the long-term dependability of access to electronic text and other types of electronic information and resources. As part of this study, I would greatly appreciate it if the subscribers to this discussion would give some attention to the following questions and return their answers to me. You need not identify yourself or your institution, but you may if you would like. You may answer any, all or none of the questions below (or volunteer any other information!!). I am greatly concerned with the dependability of access to electronic information - particularly of the Internet variety. The results of my queries will become part of a more or less impressionistic report on the subject to be shared at the annual conference of the AAASS this fall. There is practically no literature available on this subject, and any replies will be VERY valuable to me and greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, and PLEASE REPLY DIRECTLY TO ME RATHER THAN THE GROUP! Scott Gillies University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Graduate School of Library and Information Science firstname.lastname@example.org 1. What type of institution are you, or are you an individual? 2. Do you or does your institution mount files which are accessible through a network? 3. Are these files produced by you or your institution or do they originate elsewhere (i.e. archived journals)? 4. Do you depend on renewable funding to maintain these files? 5. What would you do with the files if the funding were no longer available? 6. How do you maintain access to files if they need to be moved to a different location? 7. Do you keep tape or other type of backups of your files? 8. Does your institution have a written policy regarding preservation of access to these files in some form or other? 9. Do you maintain a Web site? 10. What types of information do you provide there? 11. What types of services/information do you provide links to? 12. If and when sites to which you point move or disappear, do you record this information for users of your site? 13. If you could no longer maintain your Web site, what would you do? 14. Do you or does your institution engage in publication of electronic journals or other type of periodical? 15. How are they made available? 16. Is there a written policy regarding continued access to your publication across the network? 17. Do you maintain backups of your publication on tape? disk? print? 18. Do you archive back copies of your publications or make them available electronically in some way? 19. Do you provide access to electronic resources from an online catalogue? 20. Are these resources catalogued and classified (do they have a call number)? Please add anything else that you feel is important or might be pertinent to the discussion. Thanks again. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:17:51 EDT Reply-To: David Hill <email@example.com> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <firstname.lastname@example.org> From: David Hill <email@example.com> Organization: Sage Publications Subject: Electronic journals and tenure Does anyone know of any review of the policy of US universities and research funding bodies in regard to the status given in tenure decisions and research applications to refereed articles which have been published in an electronic journal? If there is no single source for such information, I'd appreciate any information on the policy of particular universities or funding bodies. My interest is to be able to counter author's unwillingness to submit papers to electronic journals because of fears of lack of recognition of their status. Thanks David Hill, Sage Publications, 6 Bonhill Street, London EC2A 4PU firstname.lastname@example.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:50:41 EDT Reply-To: "Charles W. Bailey, Jr." <email@example.com> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <firstname.lastname@example.org> From: "Charles W. Bailey, Jr." <email@example.com> Organization: University of Houston Subject: Re: Electronic journals and tenure David Hill <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote: >Does anyone know of any review of the policy of US universities >and research funding bodies in regard to the status given in tenure >decisions and research applications to refereed articles which >have been published in an electronic journal? > >If there is no single source for such information, I'd appreciate >any information on the policy of particular universities or >funding bodies. > >My interest is to be able to counter author's unwillingness to >submit papers to electronic journals because of fears of lack >of recognition of their status. > >Thanks > >David Hill, Sage Publications, 6 Bonhill Street, London EC2A 4PU >email@example.com > See the section on electronic serials research in my scholarly electronic publishing bibliography: http://info.lib.uh.edu/pr/v6/n1/sres.htm. Best Regards, Charles Bailey ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:51:03 EDT Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: Archiving mailing lists Brian Gaines writes: > I believe the destruction of list archives may be even more significant > than EJ archiving problems. By the time knowledge has been structured > for a journal article it is often widely known, and the article's > content can be regenerated fairly easily. Lists, however, capture the > process of knowledge formation and what is in them is often surprising > even to the contributors -- human memory continually reconstructs the past > and the actual historic record is not regenerable. Is this REALLY such a serious problem? - the contents of many lists are of marginal historical value. They are little more than electronic conversations. - there are, of course, many other lists that ARE of significant value to the communities that support them. Is it likely that the maintainers of these lists are not keeping them? In some cases, probably. But the technical aspect of the problem is precisely the same as it is for electronic journals: URNs, URCs, and formal collection repositories. The other part of the problem is selection. Keep in mind that archivists have always discarded 99 % of materials. My guess is that most mailing lists -- good, the bad, and the ugly -- will get what they deserve ;-) stu Stuart Weibel Senior Research Scientist OCLC Office of Research email@example.com (614) 764-6081 (v) (614) 764-2344 (f) http://www.oclc.org:5046/~weibel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:58:30 EDT Reply-To: Robert Kerstens <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Robert Kerstens <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Nieuw!: InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk Online, Webtijdschrift voor MKB-ondernemers X-cc: Newslib@gibbs.oit.unc.edu, email@example.com InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk Online: Nederlands eerste Web-magazine voor ondernemers in het midden- en kleinbedrijf Onlangs is het tweede nummer van InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk Online verschenen, Nederlands eerste Internet-tijdschrift met nieuws en informatie voor moderne ondernemers in het midden- en kleinbedrijf. InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk Online is een gratis online versie van InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk, een diskettetijdschrift voor MKB-ondernemers, uitgegeven door InfoLink Information Services uit Eindhoven (NL). In dit nummer o.a.: Personeel: DE LERENDE ORGANISATIE: WAARIN EEN GROTE ONDERNEMING OOK KLEIN KAN ZIJN Marketing: Marketing goeroe Paul Postma: "MIJN SYSTEEM HOUDT VERKOPERS EEN SPIEGEL VAN HUN EIGENAARDIGHEDEN VOOR" Fiscaal/juridisch: BESLOTEN OF BUITENLANDSE VENNOOTSCHAP? EEN DISCUSSIE OVER DE VOOR- EN NADELEN VOOR HET MKB! Innovatie: Innovatie-adviseur Wouter Pijzel: "INNOVATIE IS SPRONGEN MAKEN" Internet business: NVI PUBLICEERT GIDS OVER JURIDISCHE ASPECTEN VAN ELEKTRONISCH UITGEVEN Small business NetNews: STUDY SAYS THERE IS REAL SHOPPING ON THE INTERNET US GOVERNMENT STARTS SMALL BUSINESS INFORMATION SERVICE ON WEB INFORMATION HIGHWAY NOT A SAFE PLACE TO CONDUCT BUSINESS InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk Online verschijnt tweemaandelijks en bevat zowel Nederlands- als Engelstalige nieuws- en informatie-items voor ondernemers en starters. Het nieuwe augustus/september-nummer bevat praktijkgerichte nieuwsberichten en achtergrondinformatie over de volgende thema's: - Internet business: geld verdienen met/via Internet - Management - Personeelszaken - MKB-Beleid : overheidsbeleid voor het midden- en kleinbedrijf - Automatisering - Internationaal: import/export door het MKB - Innovatie - Marketing - Agenda: nationale en internationale beurzen- en congressenkalender voor het MKB - Fiscaal/juridisch: informatie over fiscale en juridische aspecten van ondernemen - Milieu: informatie over ontwikkelingen op het gebied van milieuwet en -regelgeving voor bedrijven - Cybersurf!: tips op het gebied van "netsurfen" voor het verzamelen van zakelijke informatie - Redactioneel - MKB-adressen: adressenoverzicht van Nederlandse MKB-organisaties - Small business Netnews: internationaal Engelstalig nieuws voor kleine ondernemingen, verspreid via Internet U vindt InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk Online op het World Wide Web, via http://iaehv.nl/users/kerstens/ildisk.htm. Met vriendelijke groeten, Robert Kerstens InfoLink Information Services firstname.lastname@example.org ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Robert Kerstens InfoLink Information Services Tel.: +31-(0)40-424019 Echternachlaan 186 Fax: +31-(0)40-424019 5625 JC Eindhoven E-mail: email@example.com The Netherlands WorldWide Web: http://iaehv.nl/users/kerstens/ildisk.htm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:58:42 EDT Reply-To: Robert Kerstens <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Robert Kerstens <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Introducing: InfoLink's Business Disk Online, Holland's first Web magazine for small business owners X-cc: Newslib@gibbs.oit.unc.edu, email@example.com InfoLink's Business Disk Online: Holland's first Web-magazine for owners of SME's The new august/september-issue of InfoLink's Business Disk Online (InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk Online) is now available online. InfoLink's Business Disk Online is a free online digest version of InfoLink's Ondernemersdisk, a Dutch diskmagazine for owners of SME's, published by InfoLink Information Services in Eindhoven, The Netherlands. InfoLink's Business Disk is a bilingual Dutch/English online publication and is updated bimonthly. The august/september-issue contains business news and information for small business owners on topics ranging from advertising to tax matters. An international agenda and a special "netsurf"-section listing small business information-sites on the Net, are included in the publication. The "Small business NetNews"-section of the magazine is exclusively dedicated to international English-language small business news found on the Net. You will find InfoLink's Business Disk by pointing you Web- browser to http://iaehv.nl/users/kerstens/ildisk.htm. Regards, Robert Kerstens InfoLink Information Services firstname.lastname@example.org ================================================================ In this issue: Small business NetNews: STUDY SAYS THERE IS REAL SHOPPING ON THE INTERNET US GOVERNMENT STARTS SMALL BUSINESS INFORMATION SERVICE ON WEB INFORMATION HIGHWAY NOT A SAFE PLACE TO CONDUCT BUSINESS Personeel: DE LERENDE ORGANISATIE: WAARIN EEN GROTE ONDERNEMING OOK KLEIN KAN ZIJN Marketing: Marketing goeroe Paul Postma: "MIJN SYSTEEM HOUDT VERKOPERS EEN SPIEGEL VAN HUN EIGENAARDIGHEDEN VOOR" Fiscaal/juridisch: BESLOTEN OF BUITENLANDSE VENNOOTSCHAP? EEN DISCUSSIE OVER DE VOOR- EN NADELEN VOOR HET MKB! Innovatie: Innovatie-adviseur Wouter Pijzel: "INNOVATIE IS SPRONGEN MAKEN" Internet business: NVI PUBLICEERT GIDS OVER JURIDISCHE ASPECTEN VAN ELEKTRONISCH UITGEVEN ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Robert Kerstens InfoLink Information Services Tel.: +31-(0)40-424019 Echternachlaan 186 Fax: +31-(0)40-424019 5625 JC Eindhoven E-mail: email@example.com The Netherlands WorldWide Web: http://iaehv.nl/users/kerstens/ildisk.htm ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:36:43 EDT Reply-To: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Archiving mailing lists >Tom Leonhardt remarks >Saving (archiving, if you will) listserv list postings would be a waste of >resources and tantamount to an archivist/manuscript librarian saving shopping >lists, envelopes, and a host of other things that people leave behind. One >might occasionally make a case for saving some of the truly ephemeral waste >paper, etc. of famous people, but on the whole, critical decisions need to be >made. No matter how cheap storage space, it is not free and it eventually >fills up. Sorry, but most (99%) of the postings on the Internet should be >saved only if you can use them as liners for electronic, virtual bird cages. This is an example of the lack of knowledge of what is taking place on many lists which is leading to the loss of valuable information. For example, CSG-L has for many years had an intensive scientific discussion of perceptual-motor psychology which has developed a major field of research. When offered special issues in journals the group has decided that the discourse on the list is more valuable. Several members have published books but none reflect more than a slight part of the list archives. The cg list has been similar with in-depth discussions of deep logical issues that are not replicated elewhere. The www-talk list is a treasure-trove of both the history of the development of a significant technology, and many ideas that have yet to be implemented. What is happening is that the old jornal format is being by-passed on the Internet by a new form of scientific activity and record. Tom's comments do seem to apply to newsgroups -- they, for the most part, are ephemeral -- but many list servers are the primary scholarly output of significant communities. Dismissing them from the viewpoint above is a major error. b. Dr Brian R Gaines Knowledge Science Institute University of Calgary email@example.com Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4 403-220-5901 Fax:403-284-4707 http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/KSI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:37:05 EDT Reply-To: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Archiving mailing lists >Stuart Weibel writes: >Is this REALLY such a serious problem? > >- the contents of many lists are of marginal historical value. They are > little more than electronic conversations. > >- there are, of course, many other lists that ARE of significant value > to the communities that support them. Is it likely that the maintainers > of these lists are not keeping them? In some cases, probably. But the > technical aspect of the problem is precisely the same as it is for > electronic journals: URNs, URCs, and formal collection repositories. > The problem is that the judgement of the list owners as to what is valuable, particularly for the historic record, is not always correct. Through analysis of some lists we have been able to trace the detailed dynamics of the growth of ideas and technologies in significant areas of scholarship. That may not be particularly relevant to the list maintainer. Also, if one looks at the social dynamics of scholarship, the "reward system" for knowledge dissemination is highly artificial. Scholars have no intrinsic need to contribute to the "public good". The pay-off for joining in discourse on a list is the critical discussion with peers. There may be no deep interest in making that discussion available to others. There is a related phenomenon with journals where many authors have no concern about whether their papers are read -- they have "paid their dues" by publishing. When I became involved in research in the 1950s I noticed that the most valuable research information was in the recorded discussion at the end of conference papers. It was honest, speculative, often contradicted the conclusions of papers, gave insights into anomalies, and was a great source of research ideas. It is rare to see recorded discussion in today's conference proceedings. List servers are now providing such a record of the "real" research issues in many domains. For a young researcher entering a field, access to list server archives may greatly accelerate productivity. b. Dr Brian R Gaines Knowledge Science Institute University of Calgary email@example.com Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4 403-220-5901 Fax:403-284-4707 http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/KSI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:38:33 EDT Reply-To: Julene Butler <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Julene Butler <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Electronic journals and tenure My research may be of interest here. I have been collecting data regarding the electronic journal as a channel for formal scholarly communication. One dimension of my research was a survey distributed to authors and editors of ten electronic-only journals from science and social science disciplines. They were asked whether the promotion/tenure policy statements at their institution made specific reference to electronic journals. Of the 186 individuals who responded to that question, 75% responded No, 23% did not know, and only 2% (4 individuals) responded Yes. I am unable to identify the institutional affiliation of those individuals, though they were all associated with universities. Three were from the US, the fourth from Australia. I went on to ask questions regarding rewards received (or NOT received) since the time of the individual's involvement with the electronic journal. The data revealed interesting patterns regarding INFORMAL rewards and recognition received by contributors to e-journals. Unfortunately, however, the data revealed less about FORMAL rewards such as tenure and promotion. It does seem safe to conclude from the data that, at this point in time, electronic publication has NOT led to a failure to receive rewards. Additionally, although there is a strong perception that colleagues see e-publication as less significant than print publication, very few contributors have actually been challenged regarding their e-publication or asked to justify it through formal review channels. For more detail see: Butler, J. (1995). Research into the reward system of scholarship; Where does scholarly electronic publishing get you? In A. Okerson (Ed.), Filling the Pipeline and Paying the Piper; Proceedings of the 4th Symposium (pp. 167-178). Washington, DC: Association of Research Libraries. This is also due to be published in the July '95 issue of the Journal of Scholarly Publishing. Julene Butler Ph.D. Candidate Rutgers University email@example.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:38:46 EDT Reply-To: Scott Gillies <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Scott Gillies <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: preservation of electronic information Hello Group, I have been getting a very enthusiastic response to my questionnaire regarding electronic information and how institutions and individuals are dealing with the preservation issues involved. In order to acquire some context for my study, I would like to find out which resources users use the most or depend on the most. I am interested in which _types_ of resources you use the most (listservs, e-mail, electronic journals, online databases, etc.) as well as any specific resources that you consider to be the most useful or important. If you are a librarian, I would be interested in how various patrons (faculty, grads, undergrads, general public, grade schoolers) use the electronic resources, particularly networked resources, that you provide. Thanks for the enthusiasm regarding my questionnaire, and keep them coming in! They are very useful! And be sure to tell me how you and your patrons (when applicable) use electronic resources. I really appreciate this. Please reply directly to me! Thanks in advance, Scott Gillies University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign email@example.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:39:06 EDT Reply-To: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Archiving mailing lists Bob Jansen says > >an interesting notion. DO you see the analogue of Ginsparg's server for >lists? yes >How should this be funded, since the cost is more than just the >hardware? system could be largely automatic mirroring, so cost is incremental hardware plus use of net both to mirror and to serve most effective way would be for one of the sunsites with good connectivity to provide this as an additional service -- archives would be registered for mirroring and the rest would be automatic b. Dr Brian R Gaines Knowledge Science Institute University of Calgary email@example.com Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4 403-220-5901 Fax:403-284-4707 http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/KSI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:39:23 EDT Reply-To: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Archiving mailing lists Bob Jansen writes: > >what about the editorial content. Surely, most of a current list is of >interest only to current members. Future access misses the context of the >current entries, a context that would be difficult to reproduce later on. >well as getting rid of garbage. > I think one needs to classify list usage. There are some lists with totally schlalrly content where the entire record is of domain interest. There are others doing something so significant that the entire list is of historic interest. Some of the truly ephemeral lists are still of immense psychological, linguistic and sociological interest as research data. We have the opportunity to study a variety of human discourse activities at a very low cost in data capture. We may feel we don't need all the data currently, but once detailed models are developed we may be data thirsty as usual. I live in a town of terabytes of seismic data where huge datasets are kept for decades on the basis that the cost is low and someday, some of it MAY be useful. The Internet is small beer cf satellite imaging and seismic data. Probably, a library list was the wrong place for this posting. Only the scientific discourse lists fall within the same province as EJ's. However, it is interesting that there seems little awareness that such lists exist, the number is growing, and they present a mode of discourse that bypasses any form of journal. The larger issue of scientific data capture is one for the science community at large -- that is, where the list is to be studied rather than just indexed. b. Dr Brian R Gaines Knowledge Science Institute University of Calgary email@example.com Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4 403-220-5901 Fax:403-284-4707 http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/KSI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:35:00 EDT Reply-To: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Brian Gaines <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Archiving mailing lists X-cc: email@example.com >> The www-talk list is a treasure-trove of both the history of the >> development of a significant technology, and many ideas that have >> yet to be implemented. > Stu Weibel replies >I grudgingly admit that your point may be valid, but >PUHLEEEEEASE!!! www-talk? I can imagine no surer route to perplexity >and a belief that Netscape stock is a good value than to take seriously >the unmoderated ramblings of a list such as www-talk. Brian, this >example trivializes your argument. Good heavens... the mind boggles. > I mentioned www-talk because we have been micro-analyzing the 1991/92 archives and I was astonished to what extent they provide deep insights into the development of WWW, and raise a range of major research issues. Go back to the hypermail archives which Jay Glicksman maintains at Stanford:- http://gummo.stanford.edu/hypermail/ and look at the early material. We are using this both to plot the "learning curve" for web development (filling in the detail for a model, see http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/articles/BRETAM/FCS_IT/), and to classify the components of the WWW architecture, their origins and development. I agree with you that if you take the deluge of www-talk hour by hour it lacks coherence. However, it is not at all without interest. Through the 1960s the role of IBM imperialism in standards committees was much discussed, but very difficult to model and quantify. Now we have a wealth of detailed data on the interplay between market forces and non-proprietary standardization through the html-wg and html-talk lists. We can begin to build detailed quantitative models of the dynamics of technological development. I think the hypermail archives make a big difference to ones perception of a list because they sort the mail by topic, and index the streams of discussion (the "by subject" index for the 1994 archives on -- hypermail itself was developing over the same period). Hypermail is supporting "selective attention" in a way that is difficult for us when a stream of related mail arrives over several days interspersed with many other streams of discussion. I believe the html-wg archives are updated automatically every 4 hours so they can be monitored in hypermail form. Maybe that is a much better way of following a list than receiving an unstructured mail stream. Unfortunately, in the short term, there is a bug in hypermail whereby the 1995 www-talk archives are not being properly indexed. So one cannot follow www-talk through the hypermail archives currently. That should be fixed shortly. Hopefully, the mind now boggles less, or, at least, with a different boggational frequency, b. Dr Brian R Gaines Knowledge Science Institute University of Calgary firstname.lastname@example.org Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2N 1N4 403-220-5901 Fax:403-284-4707 http://ksi.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/KSI ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:36:18 EDT Reply-To: Archie Zariski <email@example.com> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <firstname.lastname@example.org> From: Archie Zariski <email@example.com> Subject: Re: Archiving mailing lists In-Reply-To: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Something like what Brian Gaines suggests regarding mirroring is going on for law courtesy of the Chicago-Kent Law School. Take a look at The Legal Domain: http://www.kentlaw.edu/lawnet/lawnet.html (But I don't know whether they have a long-term archiving plan.) Cheers! Archie Zariski * <email@example.com> * * Technical Editor, E Law - Senior Lecturer and Program Chair * * * Murdoch University School of Law, Murdoch University * * * Electronic Journal of Law Murdoch, Western Australia 6150 * * * Ph +619 360 2979 Fax +619 310 6671 * * * * * * ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:39:39 EDT Reply-To: Tom <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Tom <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Archiving mailing lists If you want an argument against archiving the postings on mailing lists, just look at this particular discussion. I rest my case. It deserves no better future than your personal daily newspaper that you use to line the cage of a bird, hamster, rat, etc. When we have virtual bird cages that need liners, we can take the content of ANY list serv and it will do just fine. As to the notion that cutting edge thinking, research, collaboration, and other such things, where is the proof? I have tried scholarly lists and find that only occasionally does a posting rise above the level one would expect of a graduate student bull session. Lists have their place but merely posting our opinion does not make it informed or profound. Good archivists make decisions every day about what is worth keeping and what is not. Those who are unsure and inexperienced will want to keep everything but everything, including ideas, is not equal. Those old envelopes, receipts, shopping lists, etc. in a personal archive probably have more value for the cancelled stamps and letterheads than for understanding the intellectual or historical value of the subject. And if all of the papers of your local congressman were saved, it would take up more space than the complete files are worth. Good archivists have to make tough decisions. We may as well argue, when suggesting that we save all of this STUFF on listservs, that we all record our conversations and save our interoffice memos so that future generations won't be deprived of our wisdom, individual and collective. There ain't enough room on this good earth for such a refuse heap and there is too much to sift through already. What we need is discrimination, discipline, and the ruthlessness to throw out the trash. Tom Leonhardt University of Oklahoma email@example.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:40:28 EDT Reply-To: Stevan Harnad <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Stevan Harnad <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Re: Electronic journals and tenure Further to Dave Hill's query about credit for electronic publication in the US, he probably knows it already, but I here repost for vpiej-l readers the message I posted on Jul 25: the UK seems to be ahead of the US on this: From harnad Tue Jul 25 21:52:40 1995 To: email@example.com (PSYCOLOQUY) Subject: Credit for Electronic Journal Publication in the UK Cc: firstname.lastname@example.org (Lib Serials list), email@example.com (Pub-EJournals) http://www.gold.ac.uk/history/hyperjournal/rae.htm> ] Research Assessment Exercise 1996 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The Research Assessment Exercise and Electronic Journals > > HEFCE Circular RAE96 1/94 para 25c states: > > In the light of the recommendations of the Joint Funding Councils' > Libraries Review Group Report (published in December 1993) refereed > journal articles published through electronic means will be treated > on the same basis as those appearing in printed journals. > > This is the result of adopting the following recommendation in > Librev Chapter 7: > > 289. To help promote the status and acceptability of electronic > journals, the Review Group also recommends that the funding councils > should make it clear that refereed articles published electronically > will be accepted in the next Research Assessment Exercise on the > same basis as those appearing in printed journals. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:40:49 EDT Reply-To: Stevan Harnad <firstname.lastname@example.org> Sender: Electronic Journal Publishing List <email@example.com> From: Stevan Harnad <firstname.lastname@example.org> Subject: Premature Polls As I suggested in my response to Julene Butler's questionnaire on October 20 1993 (see below), though polls are, I suppose, always welcome, the kinds of questions she was asking were so premature that the responses they elicited could hardly be taken as representative of anything. Try the same questionnaire in a few more years. For now, all such a study can show is the massive inertia of the status quo against which the first hints of movement are being made. It is even possible that premature polling of a system that is only beginning to flirt with the first movements away from an entrenched status quo will have a retardant effect, like regression on the mean. It's rather like polling worldwide users of horse-drawn transport at the time when only a hundred motor cars have appeared, as to whether they are have taken steps to stop ordering hay and instead purchase gasoline... Imagine if any conclusions about whether or not to proceed with cars had been made on the basis of the results of such a poll! (The disanalogy is that we might just have been better off ecologically now if automotive technology HAD been throttled by a premature faint-hearted poll; but to pass from the paper medium to the electronic one is, fortuntately, to move in the opposite ecological direction...) ---------------------------------------------------------------- Stevan Harnad, Editor PSYCOLOQUY (sci.psychology.journals.psycoloquy) Sponsored by the American Psychological Association Department of Psychology University of Southampton Highfield, Southampton SO17 1BJ UNITED KINGDOM email@example.com phone: +44 1703 594-583 fax: +44 1703 593-281 -------------------------------------------------------------------- http://cogsci.soton.ac.uk/psyc http://www.princeton.edu/~harnad/psyc.html gopher://gopher.princeton.edu:70/11/.libraries/.pujournals ftp://ftp.princeton.edu/pub/harnad/Psycoloquy ftp://cogsci.ecs.soton.ac.uk/pub/harnad/Psycoloquy news:sci.psychology.journals.psycoloquy Date: Wed, 20 Oct 93 00:17:01 EDT From: "Stevan Harnad"